Time to fasten your belts?

<< Taking the bus again | Home | If it bleeds, it leads >>

Time to fasten your belts?

The two most populous states in the nation — California and Texas — now have laws on the books requiring school buses to be equipped with lap-shoulder seat belts for passengers. Texas joined California last week when its governor, Rick Perry, signed a bill requiring all new school buses bought after Sept. 1, 2010, to have three-point belt systems.

The bill was signed a little more than a month before the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) convenes its one-day seat belt summit in Washington, D.C. (on July 11). More importantly, the bill comes about six months after the school bus crash in Huntsville, Ala., that resulted in four deaths. That crash, in my opinion, will eventually be viewed as the event that ushered the industry into the era of seat belts.

It will be several years, possibly even decades, before all school buses in California and Texas are equipped with seat belts, but the domino effect has definitely begun. I believe we'll be seeing other states follow suit, maybe not immediately, but slowly but surely over the next five or 10 years. In addition, I believe NHTSA will eventually mandate the installation of seat belts as states begin to join California and Texas (as well as Florida, New York and New Jersey, all of which require lap belts or lap-shoulder belts).

Is this a good thing? Here's my confusing answer: Now, no; eventually, yes. It's not a good thing now because it will take time to adjust for the reduced capacity that three-point belt systems create. That means that some students will be de-capacitized (yes, I made this word up) and forced to find another, less safe travel mode to get to and from school.

In the long term, however, the school bus industry will adjust to the additional cost of school buses with seat belts (and the costs will come down as production volume rises) and will also adjust their routing and scheduling to accommodate those students who would otherwise be forced off the bus (decapacitized) due to reduced capacity. As a group, school bus people are extraordinarily resourceful; I'm confident they'll figure out how to avoid putting students off the bus.

The end result will be all school buses, large and small, equipped with lap-shoulder belts. This creates a passenger crash-protection system that I think could be called "compartmentalization-plus." The students will have all the benefits of compartmentalization, plus, they'll have a three-point belt system, should they decide to use it. And, let's face it, even if the use of seat belts is mandated by the state, many students, especially the older ones, will NOT wear the belts. But I believe that the ones who do will be better protected in a side-impact crash and rollover accident.

I can remember riding in cars that didn't have seat belts. And I can remember driving cars that had seat belts, but not wearing them. I'm glad my children will not be exposed to the same conditions. Thirty years from now, which sounds like a long time but really isn't, people will be surprised to learn that school buses didn't have seat belts.

Let me know what you think.

Steve

Print | posted on Monday, June 11, 2007 4:08 PM

Comments

re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by Geoff Bridgman at 6/11/2007 4:41 PM

Time to fasten your seat belts? Frankly, I'm not so sure. I'm opposed to the installation of seat belts in school buses for several reasons based on my driving experience, research I've done and articles I've read in the media as well as trade publications such as School Bus Fleet. Several points come to mind:

1. Increased cost of the vehicle. Schools are already straining under the pressure of tight budgets. The cost factor has to be weighed heavily with consideration to tax payers.

2. As mentioned in Steve's article above and based on my experience with kids on school buses, many of them are not going to use the belts anyway. I can just see trying to get 40-50 rambunctious kids to sit calmly in their seats, strapped in. Good luck! Further, it's been proven that these belts can be more dangerous than none at all if not properly worn.

3. Additional responsibility put onto already overtaxed drivers. Now we must be sure all kids have their seat belts fastened? I don't think that's going to go over very well with kids or drivers.

4. School buses, even without seatbelts, are the safest mode of transportation available for students today. Kids are safer in the bus than in their parents car and are less likely to be involved in any kind of accident. Parents who drive their kids to school are, in reality, doing them a dis-service and are statistically placing them in even greater danger than if they were on the bus without seatbelts.

5. Reduced seating capacity of buses will require the purchase of more vehicles. This gets back to the cost factor once again. Unfunded mandates from state or federal government will only exacerbate the problem. School buses are expensive now. We don't need to add more to the price tag of each vehicle, plus necessitate the purchase of additional vehicles.

It is a stark reality of life that accidents will occur on occasion, especially considering the number of pupils transported daily across the country. With or without seat belts, there are bound to be injuries on occasion. We need to be rational in our approach to this issue and keep in mind we already have the safest form of transportation available for our kids.

Geoff Bridgman, Driver
Pocono Mountain School District
Swiftwater, PA

re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by Brian Whitta at 6/12/2007 12:53 PM

What 78% of the country fails to recognize is the following (and I made up that statistic):

1. The cost to provide transportation services is growing by the day. If we continue to add more and more to a school bus, districts will be paying $100,000 per unit in no time.

2. The school bus itself is already exponentially safer than a passenger car and built to very exacting safety standards.

3. The liklihood of a rollover accident or the tragedy in Alabama are rarities. The media often reports the "School bus rollover" but what most don't realize is that is really a "tip over"

4. Ohio, for example has not had a fatality inside of a school bus since 1966 and we were made famous with the Circleville "rollover" video shown on Oprah and the national media.

That's just my rant. By the way, decapacitized is a great word. I like it almost as much as compartmentalization and antidisestablishmentarianism. :)

re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by Darian Fisher at 6/12/2007 1:21 PM

Can somebody get a law like that in South Carolina???

re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by john at 6/12/2007 1:59 PM

they will be sorry the first time there is a fire and the bus cannot be evacuated quickly

re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by Kyle Stanchfield at 6/12/2007 2:12 PM

I agree with the comments already posted against. We are talking a very small percentage of bus accidents that result in death. Will that small percentage make up for the possible accident where a bus is upside down, burning? Or the one, upside down, in a river or lake? We could be talking 40+ students hanging from the bus seat, upside down-who's going to be able to get that number of buckled students out in time?

re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by Darrell Clute at 6/12/2007 2:19 PM

During this past winter we had a bus accident involving water. The bus was forest too close to the edge of the road to avoid hitting an oncoming car that was out of control. The soft shoulder gave way and the bus tipped over on its side. Had the students been seat belted in we could have had some very serious injuries of deaths. We had very minor injuries to the 60 students on the bus. The video revealed the compartmentalization worked very well.

re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by Sam Armentrout at 6/12/2007 2:25 PM

Where can you buy a transit type school bus for under $100,000. We already pay much more than that before the seat belt rule was inacted in California. We will adjust to the reduced capacity, because we have to. Will they be safer? I believe it will. The additional costs will be tough to deal with as well as the oversight of insuring all students wear them, but I believe it will be well worth it in the end. As someone has already mentioned, school buses are the safest form of transportation in the nation. Why not make them safer?

re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by Doug at 6/12/2007 2:52 PM

I, like the author agree to disagree about seatbelts in school buses. Yes, they would add an element of safety to the bus in certain circumstances; however, they could also be a detrement in others.

If seat belts are mandated by legislators I would expect that the extra money needed to install and retrofit thses buses would come from the tax payer. I have noticed in numerous articles that this is a common theme for the nay sayers; the cost would be to great at this time and not fair to the tax payer. I would like to point out that in addition to the cost of the seat belt instalation a bus would need two monitors or seat belt attendants abord the bus at all times. I say two as I suspect some mothers and fathers would object to the opposite sex buckling their presious child in. You could only imagine the added cost to employ the extra staff and the insurance that comes along with that or worse yet; the lawsuits. Of coarse I have to mention that these three way seat bealts make a fantasic weapon when put in the hands of a youngster.

Yes, buses can become safer. If the legislators want to "make our children safe" start with the public and educate them. There are to many accidents involving school buses due to the carlessness or negligence of passenger vehicles. Have the athorites ride along or perform random checks along school routes or troubled areas where motorist are known to go thru stopped buses. Use billboards and other means of public media to remind motorist who is riding the bus; our children.

That's all

re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by Lori Mazan at 6/12/2007 3:20 PM

As a mother of 3, I spent many hours asking that very question. Why don't they have seatbelts on the school bus? Now, after spending more than 10 years in the school bus industry and the last 7 in Safety & Training, I have to agree that seatbelts the bus will be more of a danger than not and for all of the reasons stated above.

Additionally, and not previously mentioned, I have seen students us seatbelts as weapons. They have been used to hit other students and can cause severe injuries. Students have choked other students with them, not to mention the "tripping" over them factor when they are not in use I actually had a student pull the driver's seatbelt on her neck, so hard, that she was out on leave for months.

Finally, I offer this one last thought. Imagine yourself sitting in front of 60 elementary students and trying to convince them to put thier seatbelts one. Who will be held responsible for making sure that they actually put the belts on, if they know how? Who will be held responsible in the event of an accident and it's determined that the child took the seatbelt off in route. Who will be held responsible if a student gets hurt by a seatbelt, be it by another student or a simple trip walking down the isle.

These law maker need to come out and spend the kind of time we do on these buses to see the true aspect of being a school bus driver or attendant. Times have changed, kids are not like "we" used to be.

re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by Frank at 6/12/2007 3:22 PM

It may well be that eventually the safety freaks will win out. They will no doubt get to the uninformed public and use drama to coherce the public into pushing to get it passed.

On a side note:
I would not be here today if it were not for a seat belt. However this took place in a sports car.

Ironically I had just started wearing the seatbelt the month before. Did this give me a false sense of security and I took more risk.. Yes. I have worn it faithfully ever since however I am so used to it now (15yrs) I no longer have that false sense of security and do not take risks.

Someday we will look back and see the belts on school buses was a good move.

re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by babs the bus driver at 6/12/2007 3:48 PM

When it comes to funding the seat belts, that is politics and really doesn't matter to them that enact the laws. With it being up to the child to use the seat belt I agree most won't use them.
I recently drove a small group on a 3 hour trip. The bus was fully equiped with seat belts. Not one of these high school students chose to used a seat belt. If you can't mandate the use of the seat belt, what good are they????
From what I read most accidents with major injuries and deaths happen on trips. I can see having those buses equipped with the seat belts. Trips I take have a reduced capacity anyway. Those trips also have sponsors, teachers and coaches aboard. The likelihood of seat belt use is much greater.
On my regular middle school/high school loop the use of seat belts would have a great decapacitized effect. It would mean adding another bus to the fleet.
Look at it this way, fewer students on the bus, fewer problems. Few students on the buses equal more buses equal job security?
What are the stats from those states that already use seat belts? Has it made a difference?

re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by April at 6/12/2007 4:14 PM

I work for a school district that requires our company to have lap belts installed for the passengers, yet in Massachusetts they are not required. The children do not wear the belts - they buckle them across the aisle, tie them in knots, shove gum into the buckles and more than once a passenger has needed stitches after being struck with a belt buckle. Although I agree that the 3 point system would be a good alternative, how is the driver going to get 70 frightened children out of an emergency situation when the kids can't undo their own belts? A school bus can fill with smoke in 2 minutes - how fast will these kids be able to extricate themselves and evacuate.

Keep the compartmentalization which provides the most protection in most situations for the children. Keep the seatbelts in the automobiles.

re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by Fran at 6/12/2007 5:03 PM

I think seat belts on a school bus is more trouble than anything. I have been driving a school bus since 1970, this last year is the frist with lap belts. The students don't wear them,they are always on the floor.and they get very dirty.

re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by Jimbo at 6/12/2007 6:08 PM

New York State has required lap seat belts in full size school buses for years. They left the enforcement of their use to the local school boards of education. Very few NYS school boards have mandated the use of seat belts because of the liability issues. One local district places two (2) teacher aides on each bus during afternoon dismissal to help buckle up the elementary students. Once finished, the aides leave the bus. Most seat belts are unbuckled before the bus leaves the driveway. (in the morning no one buckles up !)

re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by tallncrazy at 6/12/2007 7:18 PM

I have been driving school bus now for 11 years. I had an experience once where a student took a lap belt and struck my aide on the bus in the face with it. My aide needed six stitches in his eyebrow.

Weapons already are not allowed on school buses. So now they want to provide weapons for the students to use!!! Give me a break!

Also, in case of a roll over, which is very rare, students will be left hanging from their belts freaking out and trapped. We had this shown to us in a demonstration by our local fire department with an older bus. When you really see what could happen to one of your students, you definately don't want belts.

Another question. Why aren't they asking us, the drivers, what we think instead of letting hysteria make the decisions.

re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by Donovan at 6/12/2007 8:07 PM

It is about time someone said something we need that at our schools in North Carolina in the Northeastern region

# re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by Harold Turnquist at 6/12/2007 8:37 PM

It's interesting that the Huntsville accident is credited with building support for this bill. I am reminded of an accident that occurred near Mission, Texas, on September 21, 1989, when a soft drink truck ran a stop sign and hit a Mission Texas school bus, knocking it into a water filled gravel pit. Twenty-one children from the Alton Texas area drowned and sixty-three were injured. How many more would have drowned if the students had been wearing seat belts?

This past spring we had a five month old 2007 Type C lift bus catch fire from an apparent electrical problem while returning to the yard at the end of the day. The bus was fully engulfed within three minutes of the time the driver first saw smoke coming from a heater intake vent and was a total loss. We still pause to consider what would have happened if there had been students in wheelchairs or using seat belts in the bus. I shudder to think about a full load of young students in seat belts trying to evacuate in that situation.

re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by Dan Bartelt at 6/12/2007 8:38 PM

As the Training Manger of a large school district, I can merely echo what has already been written here about the the misguided hysteria regarding the mandating of 3-point restraints in school buses. I believe "babs the busdriver's" blog (6/12/07) made a particularly good point.
The major point that seems to be over-looked or perhaps ignored (beyond the actual pro/con debate) is; Why are we debating the issue at all? The short answer may be politics. Seat belts on school buses "sounds" like a good idea to the uninitiated. therefore it makes for excellent "feel good" legislation by our state and federal representatives. What state senator or representative wouldn't brag about his/her sponsoring a bill to require seat belts in school buses? That sentaor may not really care if his/her legislation actually makes school buses UNsafer. He/she cares about getting the votes.
The problem with paying people to make laws is . . they just might do it.

re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by Brian Thelin at 6/12/2007 9:16 PM

Everyone keeps talking about a school bus rollover and kids hanging upside down. A school bus can rollover, but try to get one to stay upside down. with a round roof it will never stay upside down.

the only way to make seat belts work on a school bus is to do a arm like on a carnival ride
my 2 cents worth

re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by Ron Cook at 6/13/2007 4:06 AM

Who will be responsible for the student to buckle up? Will the driver be in trouble if he/she has a wreck an the student is not buckled
up? To inforce this you will have to have a monitor on every bus, can the schools afford this? The monitor on every bus would be nice, the driver could then put all his efforts to
drive the bus safely to and from school.

re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by Linda at 6/13/2007 4:16 AM

I am so glad that I will be retiring in a few years. I can only imagine the problems we will all encounter over the next few years as this topic continues to gather steam and supporters (from politiians and parents who have never driven a school bus). Money$$$$. It will take money that schools don't have to equip the bus and de-capacitize and we will all look like fools years later when the seat belts lay in the dirty aisle getting rusty and stuck full of gum never used! What a waste!
We had a bus roll on it's side in 1992 with a about 40 kids on it. The only person hurt was the bus driver who injured her ribs when she fell 8 feet to the stairwell after she unbuckled the seat belt. The rest of the kids were fine for the most part except for some bumps and bruises and a story to tell.

re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by Dan at 6/13/2007 4:24 AM

Steve,

Thanks for your discussion prompted by the Texas action regarding seat belts. Conversations of this type come up at least once a week in my office.

I don't know if you've done this recently but I would propose that you do an in-depth article based on the "results" seen in California, Florida, New York and New Jersey.

Do these states DOTs have any "statistics" to share with the rest of the nation? What has the "real" cost differential, if any been? Has it proven safer "overall" or not? to have added seat belts to the busses?

Laws are created by society to better the common good, or at least we hope so. Laws cannot be perfect, but they should be reasonable.

Please help us in the industry and the general public, to determine what is reasonable. Hard data is important to decide which way the scale leans on cost versus safety.

re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by Peg at 6/13/2007 4:44 AM

I totally agree with Brian and the amusement park ride bar across everyone in the seat. Seat belts will be more trouble than they're worth.

It's politics, politics, politics.

re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by d.d.d. at 6/13/2007 5:05 AM

What? Seat belt's on Big buses!

Did anyone think of these students using these seat belts as wepons! How about your child on the bus and dear Johnny, having a bad day taking a seat belt and raping it around your childs neck or hitting the in the face losing an eye or a tooth, you can guess the rest!
How about the cost of maintaning them!!!! We already have enough problems trying to keep seat covers on seats! Extra man power! adding more $$$ to our already, tight budgets. There are to many negatives and not enough positives

re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by Dwight Moore at 6/13/2007 5:14 AM

I have been driving bus since 1969 and I've seen the low back seat and now we have the high back seats; the high back seats along with compartmentalization is the only way to ensure the safety of the kids.
Sounds like just another bill that's passed by good meaning, not knowing what they are talking about government people.
I hope we don't have a serious accident due to the seat belts causing confusion during an evacuation.

re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by Karen Page at 6/13/2007 5:30 AM

A lot of great comments have been made already! The cost, safety, decapacitization, and weapons issues are all valid and points for concern. I guess my question is from a different angle. I am in a K-8 district. Assuming that the shoulder harness is fixed (and it has to be right?) and maybe even retractable, (it should be to address the weapons issue), then how do we accomodate for the 3 ft kindy and the 6 ft 8th grader? I have a gizmo for the car, would drivers be expected to afix these between routes?

re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by Joyce at 6/13/2007 5:32 AM

Thirty years from now, people will not remember when school buses did not have seat belts???? I'm glad I won't be around to see that day..All the people who want seatbelts, should be made to take a few rides on a school bus filled with 6 to 12 year olds.

re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by Alan Becker at 6/13/2007 6:05 AM

I have to agree with the author and others about the use of seat belts on buses, they can create a problem that we all dont want to see happen. As stated earlier, what would happen if a bus catches on fire, or if the driver becomes incapacitated who will stop the bus? Washington State requires the full use of seat belts, that is if there is a seat belt it has to be used, but what if junior decides that he does not want to wear the belt and there is an accident who is responsible? Someone mentioned the need to have monitors on the bus to assist with ensuring that all the kids buckle up, but what about the man driver who has to help a young girl buckle her seat belt and deal with her saying that he touched her?

Working for a contractor carrier, having to add extra buses due to the use of seat belts will cost not only the contractor but also the school district for additional buses. Then you have to hire and train extra drivers and right now for my contract location it is hard to find and keep drivers.

I feel that the seat belts work great in a car, statistics have proven that fact, but in a school bus they dont have a purpose. Also, no one has mentioned about if school buses have to have seat belts what about mass transit buses?

# re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by Greg Kelley at 6/13/2007 6:11 AM

I read a study in which a percentage of school buses were equipped with the three point restraint systems. Just about all of the concerns from the true experts above were realized. Who is going to be held accountable for the adjustments needed to be made when a second grader needs to use the same system that a high schooler used just an hour earlier?

We want nothing more than for the safest mode of transportation to be even safer. We strive for that everyday. Our reservations about seat belts doesn't come from laziness or complacency, but rather the fear of unintended consequences that could cause harm to our passengers.

Brian Whitta pointed out that we haven't lost a student inside the bus for over four decades, which shows that our students are most vulnerable at drop off and pick up points. This is why continual training of drivers, students, and motorists is so vital.

Stop arm violations are a real concern in our area as I'm sure they are in most of the country. Maybe equipping each stop arm with a camera to record violations and a citation deliverd to the perpetrator with the stiffest fine allowable by law would be a way saving children's lives.

re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by Michael Lunsford at 6/13/2007 6:16 AM

I have been in the school bus arena for nearly 40 years. So, I understand the negative feelings concerning seat belts. But, as our society changes we must change attitudes also. In a normal front or rear crash I do not think the addition of seat belts will have an affect. But, in the side impact adn roll-over situations the 3-point systems will help. Albeit school buses are greatly safer than the family car the 3 point system will help.
I also think it is not reasonable to mandate use. This is an impossible task. We should provide the system, expalin how to use it, encourage use, but in the end it is up to the student and the parent to strongly encourage the use. As far as cost, how many systems load 3 students per 39" seat at the middle and high level, I doubt very many.
In the end, even if the 3-point system does not have a significant impact on safety, it does train the smaller children to always put on your belt whenever in a motor vehicle. As we all know making a process routine for the elementary age child tends to follow them as they grow.
No retrofitting, just start the 3-point systems with new buses. 15 years from now we will not remember when there were no seat belts.

re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by Wayne Eveland at 6/13/2007 6:58 AM

When is the seat belt law going into effect in Missouri?

re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by Mike Gizdala at 6/13/2007 7:13 AM

I have mixed emotions about the seat belt's. The cost of doing this will make a tight budget even tighter. The driver will have to be ready to "cut" students out of the blets in possible accident situations. Another things that concerns me is that the seat belt could be used to hit other students, another concern to deal with from parents. School buses are the safest form of transportation on the road today. We need to make sure that we get our story out that school buses are safe the way they are at this time. We need to become a data driven department. This is a double edge sword with both sides making great points. Let's remember, it's all about what is best for the "students"

re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by Cheri at 6/13/2007 7:34 AM

I, too, like your new word "de-capacitized", however, that could never happen in Illinois because of the state law that every student who lives more than 1 1/2 miles from their school is entitled to busing.

Our district would be forced to buy more buses, possibly doubling our current fleet. Then more land would have to be purchased to park these buses and possibly a new terminal would need to be built. We're talking millions of dollars here. I'm NOT confident our district could find this kind of money.

Can we put a price tag on the life of a child? Of course not, and other services would definitely suffer! Teachers salaries might be affected; after school programs would disappear; sports might be compromised (heaven forbid!).

I've been in this business for 31 years and agree with the previous comments on several points: kids won't wear them; serious bus evacuation issues; buckles used as weapons; belt clutter on the floor; and as I mentioned, the astronomical cost.

The on-going improvements in compartmentalization makes it the most effective way to protect children's lives.

# re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by Mike Byrne at 6/13/2007 7:58 AM

As the Transportation Director of one of, if not the only, school districts in Missouri that has its entire fleet of 148 buses equipped with lap belts, I can speak to this issue.
1. While we've never done a formal survey to measure useage, anecdotal evidence suggests that lest than 10% of our 11,500 riders use the seat belt.
2. Our district does not mandate, but suggests that passengers buckle up. We know from experience that mandating use does not assure compliance.
3. The seat belts on our buses have rarely, if ever, been used as weapons.
4. A 17% reduction in capacity does not automatically mean a 17% increase in buses, because most buses are not filled to capacity. In our district, however, it would mean a 10% increase in buses required if every bus were equipped with 3-point belts today.
5. In our suburban district, the average route is about 20 minutes long, and travels mostly subdivision streets, with very little highway travel. Requiring seat belt use would add significant time to our routes.
6. Seat belt legislation has been introduced in the Missouri legislature two years in a row, but has not been passed - yet!

re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by John Horan at 6/13/2007 8:18 AM

The problem with these kind of feel good mandates is that there is never any compelling empirical evidence to support them. There have been no studies conducted by any credible objective organization that indicates that seat belts would improve safety.

# re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by Steve Hirano at 6/13/2007 8:22 AM

Thanks for all of the great input!

The insights provided by bus drivers are particularly compelling, since they're the ones who have the day-to-day, year-to-year experience of dealing with the realities of the school bus environment.

I wonder whether bus drivers testified during any hearings conducted by the Texas state legislature (or California or Florida's legislatures) before the decision was made to mandate the installation of seat belts.

This is a thorny issue that will not be going away any time soon. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's day-long summit on seat belts, scheduled for July 11, suggests that the federal government is laying the foundation for a possible rule-making on this issue.

And school buses aren't the only vehicles under pressure on the seat belt issue. The motorcoach industry is also being scrutinized because of some high-profile fatal crashes, the latest one leaving six people dead in Atlanta.

Keep the comments coming!

re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by Doug Geller at 6/13/2007 9:44 AM

Compartmentalization on large buses works. We transport over 140,000 children daily over 18 million miles annually. We have between 200 & 300 annual accident/incidents and have never had a fatality except by passing motorists and one by a bus running over a student (prior to installing crossing arms). Reduced seat availability is unacceptable given the needs vs costs vs low risk. We provide seat belts/carseats/safety vests as needed for special needs riders. The real threat is evacuation in case of fire and need to remove oneself from a direct hit by a large vehicle heading for a particular seating position. Let's put the money where it is needed - into the classrooms and to purchase more buses and pay the drivers, mechanics, monitors and teachers more equitably. Whose agenda item is this anyway???

re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by E. Kennedy at 6/13/2007 9:55 AM

I have been a school bus driver for 27 years. I drive a Thomas C2 71 passenger bus, and seat belts are always on the floor or pushed down behind the cushion. I believe having an extra adult attendant on every bus would keep students in their seat seated in their own compartment correctly would make everything a lot safer. The Driver can keep her eyes on the road and all the traffic and problems surronding the bus. Also the cost would would be minimal compared to any type of seat belt.

re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by Brendan Anderson at 6/13/2007 11:13 AM

If they must enact a bill like this. There needs to be some sort of a clause in it stating the the drivers and the company are in no way held responsible if a child decides not to wear the seat belt and is injured in an accident, or if a child uses the belt as a weapon and injures another student. I can just see the law suits coming out of this one.

re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by Mrs. Ron at 6/13/2007 2:51 PM

Our district transports K-12 am & pm. We live in a farming community that has very deep & wide canals for our water source. I often wonder how I alone would be able to evacuate all the students, WITHOUT seatbelts! Please don't add that extra time to save our childrens lives, by having to un-buckle them!!

# re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by Joseph L. - L I, New York at 6/13/2007 3:39 PM

I drive on Long Island, New York since the year 2000,the only person in the school bus with a seat belt is the driver.

All student seat belts are hanging down on the floor of the school bus never to be used. only to be in the way when you sweep the bus and get dirty.

# re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by Charlotte at 6/14/2007 7:26 PM

I wrote about this last year on my personal blog last year. I tell all my kids "If you're not seated, you're not safe." A lap belt reminds them to stay seated. My 6-12 students refuse to wear them. Every student knows how to wear them properly. I have never had them used as weapons. I check that all the belts are in working order as part of my pre-trip inspection so they are not on the floor or stuffed down in the seats. We have seat belt cutters on all of our buses.

I don't feel that a three point system is necessary but lets face the fact that the time is coming. For many districts the capacity issue will be addressed with larger buses rather than more buses.

re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by d.d.d. at 6/15/2007 6:36 AM

Come on people! Try to keep 50 inner city students in seat belts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We as drivers,have a hard enough time keeping them in seats and sitting down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe they should put one of those state legislature boy's that wear suit and ties behind the wheel!!!!!!!!!!!! Let them drive for one day! They will never come back....Lol...
I bet they would change there mind then..!

re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by David Phillips at 6/15/2007 2:01 PM

If the financial resources that will be used for seat belts (and their questionable effect on safety) were directed elsewhere, would we see a better return on investment? Motion sensors for the the perimeter around the danger zone comes to mind ...

# re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by Jennifer at 6/15/2007 4:57 PM

I just have to add that I too think they are a huge issue and not a positive one. I think you will lose the majority of drivers when they are introduced because they will be exactly the opposite in safety as to what they are trying to be. They will make busses less safe in many regards.

re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by Geoff Bridgman at 6/16/2007 5:45 PM

While I have already posted a response to this blog, and read all the other responses, I still feel compelled to comment further. Texas legislature signing into law "seat belts on all school buses by 2010" is a classic example of politicians passing a politically correct law that sounds great on the surface, appeals to the masses, and makes heros out of the sponsors of the bill. Only the school transportation professionals who will have to deal with the fallout from these laws on a daily basis will know what's actually involved. Respondents to this blog bring up excellent points which include, but are not limited to: Trying to get kids to use them, problems with unlatching them for quick evacuation if necessary, belts tucked under seats and dangling on the floor getting dirty and in the way of cleaning the bus, mechanisms sticking, kids playing with them and using said belts as "weapons," adjusting the belts for different size kids as the runs change, cost factors, reduced capacity and more. The list goes on and on. Still, it seems many drivers feel this will get shoved down our throats sooner or later. I would suggest an in-depth study on just how effective school bus seat belts have been in states already requiring them. This will be an almost impossible task as school buses seldom have accidents anyway. The outcome in the case of a serious accident, such as a bus going over an embankment or getting broad sided by another large vehicle or train, is not likely to change with seat belts. So, why tamper with the safest form of transportation for students? It is my sincere hope that no other states in the union get on the bandwagon with the unnecessary, and possibly even dangerous, seat belt law that has been (unfortunately) already enacted in California, Texas, Florida, New York and New Jersey!

re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by rose at 6/20/2007 5:52 AM

Seatbelts I feel are more dangerous on a school bus.1) It will take longer to evacuate a bus
2) Some will use them as weapons.
3) We will have to buy more buses.
4) Who is going to make sure these belts are being used.
WE have a 19-A system in place that is there to make sure our drivers are safe drivers.

re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by Kathy Weidman at 8/8/2007 4:50 AM

Maybe it is time to take our Politicians for a ride in School Buses, belt them in, and then put them thru an emergency drill. It would even be better if we could put them behind the wheel for an evening trip home with the kiddies, say around the First of June, with summer temps and pre-vacation excitement! I dare say, most of our elected officials have never been in a school bus and are relying on self-serving, individual, propaganda to make these "for the sake of our children" decisions! We had a bus fire in a neighboring county last year, and believe me, Seat Belts would have cost childrens lives in that fire!
One more thing to think about, children tend to fiddle around during their bus ride, whats to keep them from entangling the seat belt with their back pack straps? or stuff pencils or crayons into the buckles. This will surely cause alot more work for the drivers and mechanics....,and more $$$$.

re: Time to fasten your belts?

left by Frank Malone at 8/15/2007 1:31 PM

The seat belt issue has been an ongoing issue here in New York State.

The facts are: we have seat belts on the buses, three (3) for every seat, but the childern don't have to wear them, unless they are special needs.

Enforcement of the "wear the seat belt" would be near impossible for the driver alone to handle, attendents would be needed, and the schools would have to back the enforcement policies; which is doubtful for many reasons, one of which is "time".

All in all, kids children are pretty safe on school buses, when compared to other forms of transportation.

Stuff the seat belts.

Add A Comment
Title
Name
Email (never displayed)
Url
Comments
Remember Me?
Please add 6 and 1 and type the answer here: